spam is destroying this group

[Patrick Broos]

I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

[g***@gmail.com]

Ditto. This really should be a moderated group instead of wide open usenet. But I suppose the only alternative is the Harris IDL forum.

[superchromix]

Post by g***@gmail.com
Ditto. This really should be a moderated group instead of wide open usenet. But I suppose the only alternative is the Harris IDL forum.

how can we change this to a moderated group? Personally, I use the "report post" feature of google groups, which hides the spam.

[Patrick Broos]

I had never heard of the Harris IDL forum before your post.

If anyone from Harris is listening, you should really think about finding a way to combine these two mechanisms for IDL users to communicate, in a way that preserves the best features of both environments. Not an easy task, I suppose. But, if you don't engage the next generation of IDL programmers, IDL will fade into dust.

[Ben Castellani]

Post by Patrick Broos
I had never heard of the Harris IDL forum before your post.
If anyone from Harris is listening, you should really think about finding a way to combine these two mechanisms for IDL users to communicate, in a way that preserves the best features of both environments. Not an easy task, I suppose. But, if you don't engage the next generation of IDL programmers, IDL will fade into dust.

We highly recommend that you post your questions in the official IDL Forum: http://www.harrisgeospatial.com/Support/Forums/tabid/2342/aff/217/Default.aspx

This is monitored daily and is moderated, but you do need to be a registered user of HarrisGeospatial.com. There is a (slight) delay to approve topics and replies.

We also check this Google forum as well, but we will respond here much less frequently. We are evaluating options to improve the overall experience for IDL users in the community forums, and therefore greatly value your feedback!

[Mats Löfdahl]

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

If you use google groups to read it, you can report messages as spam. I don't know if this has any consequences for the spammers but at least the messages are then hidden from you. And as some spammers keep posting in their own threads, that's even better because these follow-up spams are then hidden from you without any further action from you.

Other news readers may have other mechanisms for filtering contents.

[Nikola Vitas]

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

I read the group by opening the link that I receive by email. Although I have reported a spam post, it remains visible - I guess because it's not just an initial post but there is many spam replies making it the most active topic in the group?

Can't agree more that the group should be moderated.

Cheers,
Nikola

[superchromix]

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

I would encourage everyone to use Google Groups to read the newsgroup. Hiding spam is a nice feature. The group can be found at:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.idl-pvwave/

[Patrick Broos]

I do use Google Groups. I'm just not willing to spend the time opening every spam entry and "reporting" it as spam. If hiding a post was just one click, this level of spam might be tolerable. Perhaps there's some trick to the Google Groups GUI that I haven't noticed ....

[superchromix]

Post by Patrick Broos
I do use Google Groups. I'm just not willing to spend the time opening every spam entry and "reporting" it as spam. If hiding a post was just one click, this level of spam might be tolerable. Perhaps there's some trick to the Google Groups GUI that I haven't noticed ....

If you flag the first post of a thread as spam, Google groups will automatically hide the rest of the posts in that thread.

[g***@gmail.com]

There appears to be about a 25% spam ratio lately, and having to open spam threads and manually mark each of them is not a viable solution. If this was a non-Usenet Google group, then the owner could implement an automatic spam filter without needing to moderate every post.

[wlandsman]

Post by g***@gmail.com
There appears to be about a 25% spam ratio lately, and having to open spam threads and manually mark each of them is not a viable solution. If this was a non-Usenet Google group, then the owner could implement an automatic spam filter without needing to moderate every post.

Until about a year ago, a user marking a comp.lang.idl-pvwave thread as spam on Google groups would remove it from the feed for *everyone*. I am not sure why Google ended this nice feature, but I suspect that supporting Usenet groups is very low on their priority list.

A problem with switching from Usenet to Google, Yahoo or Facebook groups is that one needs to first create a Google, Yahoo, or Facebook identity in order to post. This is also true for the Harris newsgroup, which (besides being clunky) requires one to register with Harris in order to post. (Of course, the ability of anyone to post to Usenet also makes it more susceptible to spam.) StackExchange might be a solution but I suspect the small community of IDL users could get lost in that giant software forum.

If we needed to create a new forum, I guess my vote would be for a (non-Usenet) Google group. But I'm not sure we are at that point yet, since (as mentioned before) one can "Report abuse" with Google groups with a single click, and all subsequent posts to that thread are automatically hidden. --Wayne

[l***@gmail.com]

Post by wlandsman

Post by g***@gmail.com
There appears to be about a 25% spam ratio lately, and having to open spam threads and manually mark each of them is not a viable solution. If this was a non-Usenet Google group, then the owner could implement an automatic spam filter without needing to moderate every post.

Until about a year ago, a user marking a comp.lang.idl-pvwave thread as spam on Google groups would remove it from the feed for *everyone*. I am not sure why Google ended this nice feature, but I suspect that supporting Usenet groups is very low on their priority list.
A problem with switching from Usenet to Google, Yahoo or Facebook groups is that one needs to first create a Google, Yahoo, or Facebook identity in order to post. This is also true for the Harris newsgroup, which (besides being clunky) requires one to register with Harris in order to post. (Of course, the ability of anyone to post to Usenet also makes it more susceptible to spam.) StackExchange might be a solution but I suspect the small community of IDL users could get lost in that giant software forum.
If we needed to create a new forum, I guess my vote would be for a (non-Usenet) Google group. But I'm not sure we are at that point yet, since (as mentioned before) one can "Report abuse" with Google groups with a single click, and all subsequent posts to that thread are automatically hidden. --Wayne

But how many of the spam messages are follow-up posts and how many are new?

[l***@gmail.com]

Post by Patrick Broos
I do use Google Groups. I'm just not willing to spend the time opening every spam entry and "reporting" it as spam. If hiding a post was just one click, this level of spam might be tolerable. Perhaps there's some trick to the Google Groups GUI that I haven't noticed ....

My view entirely.

[l***@gmail.com]

Post by superchromix

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/comp.lang.idl-pvwave/

I use google groups to read this newsgroup, but don't know of any way to eliminate the spam.

[Helder]

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

I agree that spam is awful. However, as others mentioned, google groups web helps in labeling spam and hiding it.
I'm not really in favor of a moderated group, only because of the time delay between submission and publication of posts.
And, apart from the obvious spam messages, this group is very civil and it is the second place I look for information. First place is still the IDL's Help.

Cheers,
Helder

[Nikola Vitas]

Perhaps the group does not need to be moderated as long as someone has right to remove spam from the group. I'm getting daily digest from the group on my email. Although I reported all the spam, I still see them in the digest. It's becoming increasingly annoying. It's also very bad for attracting new users.

Is there any way to appoint a moderator at all? Does it matter who founded the group ages ago?

[wlandsman]

I am going to try going through the process of creating a moderated newsgroup comp.lang.idl-envi

Much of the information online about creating a moderated newsgroup appears to be outdated, with a lot of broken links. However, it appears that new moderated newsgroups have been successfully created this year, so I will go ahead and create a RFD (request for discussion).

I chose the name because (1) apparently it is very difficult to switch a group to moderated and keep the same name (2) the name comp.lang.idl is reserved for the completely unrelated Interface Definition Language, (3) there have been only a handful of posts about PV-WAVE in this group since 1992, when PV-WAVE began diverging from its common origin with IDL, and (4) given the number of previous ownership changes, I don't believe we can assume a continued association of IDL with Harris Geospatial. However, the association of IDL with Envi seems quite firm. (It seems that Envi is currently the main driver of developments to the IDL language.)

If I succeed in creating a moderated newsgroup, it would be useful to have one or two other moderators, preferably in a different time zone than me. (I am in Washington DC). I would also eventually need to have other users vote in favor of the creation of the moderated newsgroup.

My experience with moderated newsgroups is that they are quite effective in eliminating spam, although there can be a delay of a few hours before a post appears. But posting will still be available to anyone without any registration.

Comments welcome. --Wayne

Post by Nikola Vitas
Perhaps the group does not need to be moderated as long as someone has right to remove spam from the group. I'm getting daily digest from the group on my email. Although I reported all the spam, I still see them in the digest. It's becoming increasingly annoying. It's also very bad for attracting new users.
Is there any way to appoint a moderator at all? Does it matter who founded the group ages ago?

[Mats Löfdahl]

Post by wlandsman
I am going to try going through the process of creating a moderated newsgroup comp.lang.idl-envi
Much of the information online about creating a moderated newsgroup appears to be outdated, with a lot of broken links. However, it appears that new moderated newsgroups have been successfully created this year, so I will go ahead and create a RFD (request for discussion).
I chose the name because (1) apparently it is very difficult to switch a group to moderated and keep the same name (2) the name comp.lang.idl is reserved for the completely unrelated Interface Definition Language, (3) there have been only a handful of posts about PV-WAVE in this group since 1992, when PV-WAVE began diverging from its common origin with IDL, and (4) given the number of previous ownership changes, I don't believe we can assume a continued association of IDL with Harris Geospatial. However, the association of IDL with Envi seems quite firm. (It seems that Envi is currently the main driver of developments to the IDL language.)
If I succeed in creating a moderated newsgroup, it would be useful to have one or two other moderators, preferably in a different time zone than me. (I am in Washington DC). I would also eventually need to have other users vote in favor of the creation of the moderated newsgroup.
My experience with moderated newsgroups is that they are quite effective in eliminating spam, although there can be a delay of a few hours before a post appears. But posting will still be available to anyone without any registration.
Comments welcome. --Wayne

Post by Nikola Vitas
Perhaps the group does not need to be moderated as long as someone has right to remove spam from the group. I'm getting daily digest from the group on my email. Although I reported all the spam, I still see them in the digest. It's becoming increasingly annoying. It's also very bad for attracting new users.
Is there any way to appoint a moderator at all? Does it matter who founded the group ages ago?

Sounds like a great idea!

/Mats

[superchromix]

Post by Mats Löfdahl

Post by wlandsman
I am going to try going through the process of creating a moderated newsgroup comp.lang.idl-envi
Much of the information online about creating a moderated newsgroup appears to be outdated, with a lot of broken links. However, it appears that new moderated newsgroups have been successfully created this year, so I will go ahead and create a RFD (request for discussion).
I chose the name because (1) apparently it is very difficult to switch a group to moderated and keep the same name (2) the name comp.lang.idl is reserved for the completely unrelated Interface Definition Language, (3) there have been only a handful of posts about PV-WAVE in this group since 1992, when PV-WAVE began diverging from its common origin with IDL, and (4) given the number of previous ownership changes, I don't believe we can assume a continued association of IDL with Harris Geospatial. However, the association of IDL with Envi seems quite firm. (It seems that Envi is currently the main driver of developments to the IDL language.)
If I succeed in creating a moderated newsgroup, it would be useful to have one or two other moderators, preferably in a different time zone than me. (I am in Washington DC). I would also eventually need to have other users vote in favor of the creation of the moderated newsgroup.
My experience with moderated newsgroups is that they are quite effective in eliminating spam, although there can be a delay of a few hours before a post appears. But posting will still be available to anyone without any registration.
Comments welcome. --Wayne

Post by Nikola Vitas
Perhaps the group does not need to be moderated as long as someone has right to remove spam from the group. I'm getting daily digest from the group on my email. Although I reported all the spam, I still see them in the digest. It's becoming increasingly annoying. It's also very bad for attracting new users.
Is there any way to appoint a moderator at all? Does it matter who founded the group ages ago?

Sounds like a great idea!
/Mats

Why not also inquire about switching this group to "moderated"? The value of this newsgroup is the accumulated history of the messages.

[wlandsman]

Post by superchromix
Why not also inquire about switching this group to "moderated"? The value of this newsgroup is the accumulated history of the messages.

Yes, it would be ideal to keep the same name. I have read that this is difficult because individual Usenet servers would need to be updated to identify the group as moderated, and spam could still get through on those servers that are not updated. But I have asked if this is possible on

news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals

--Wayne

[Nikola Vitas]

Post by wlandsman

Post by superchromix
Why not also inquire about switching this group to "moderated"? The value of this newsgroup is the accumulated history of the messages.

Yes, it would be ideal to keep the same name. I have read that this is difficult because individual Usenet servers would need to be updated to identify the group as moderated, and spam could still get through on those servers that are not updated. But I have asked if this is possible on
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
--Wayne

If you still need someone to moderate the new list, I'd be happy to help. I'm in UTC+0.

Is there a way to archive the history of this group? I found a couple of tips around, but haven't tried any of these. For example:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23522705/download-all-messages-from-a-google-group

Best,
Nikola

[Wayne Landsman]

Nikola, thanks for the offer. I have delayed trying to get a
moderated newsgroup for reasons I will explain in a subsequent post.

Meanwhile, those with access to Mozilla Thunderbird can use their news
reader capability to eliminate most spam. I use the server
nntp.aioe.org. I then have access to the usual mail filters to
eliminate certain users ("asmagan" "soma") or common keywords in spam
headers. I find that I can eliminate 95% of the spam with five
filters, and the rest are permanently deleted with a single click.

Unfortunately, most mail systems (e.g. Outlook, Apple mail) do not offer
access to news readers so this is not a general solution.

--Wayne

Post by Nikola Vitas

Post by wlandsman

Post by superchromix
Why not also inquire about switching this group to "moderated"? The value of this newsgroup is the accumulated history of the messages.

Yes, it would be ideal to keep the same name. I have read that this is difficult because individual Usenet servers would need to be updated to identify the group as moderated, and spam could still get through on those servers that are not updated. But I have asked if this is possible on
news.announce.newgroups
news.groups.proposals
--Wayne

If you still need someone to moderate the new list, I'd be happy to help. I'm in UTC+0.
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/23522705/download-all-messages-from-a-google-group
Best,
Nikola

[l***@gmail.com]

Post by wlandsman
I am going to try going through the process of creating a moderated newsgroup comp.lang.idl-envi
Much of the information online about creating a moderated newsgroup appears to be outdated, with a lot of broken links. However, it appears that new moderated newsgroups have been successfully created this year, so I will go ahead and create a RFD (request for discussion).
I chose the name because (1) apparently it is very difficult to switch a group to moderated and keep the same name (2) the name comp.lang.idl is reserved for the completely unrelated Interface Definition Language, (3) there have been only a handful of posts about PV-WAVE in this group since 1992, when PV-WAVE began diverging from its common origin with IDL, and (4) given the number of previous ownership changes, I don't believe we can assume a continued association of IDL with Harris Geospatial. However, the association of IDL with Envi seems quite firm. (It seems that Envi is currently the main driver of developments to the IDL language.)
If I succeed in creating a moderated newsgroup, it would be useful to have one or two other moderators, preferably in a different time zone than me. (I am in Washington DC). I would also eventually need to have other users vote in favor of the creation of the moderated newsgroup.
My experience with moderated newsgroups is that they are quite effective in eliminating spam, although there can be a delay of a few hours before a post appears. But posting will still be available to anyone without any registration.
Comments welcome. --Wayne

Post by Nikola Vitas
Perhaps the group does not need to be moderated as long as someone has right to remove spam from the group. I'm getting daily digest from the group on my email. Although I reported all the spam, I still see them in the digest. It's becoming increasingly annoying. It's also very bad for attracting new users.
Is there any way to appoint a moderator at all? Does it matter who founded the group ages ago?

The problem with having a moderator is that posts will be delayed. One of the beauties of this group is that you can get a response while you're still working on the problem. I can't imagine a moderator waiting around to approve posts every time one is made.

[yamo']

Hi,

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

Google is the source of 99.99 % of spam on usenet.
In some server, google posts are banned!

For reading, with a spam cleaning system, you can read from an nntp server.

And google doesn't accept cancel for spam.

I can give you an access (for free, it's an hobby, and my server is only
running on a raspberry).


I don't know where is a good list for big8 but for the fr hierarchy,
there is a list of servers :
<http://usenet-fr.redatomik.org/view/Liste_de_serveurs> The first one,
eternal-september doesn't filter spam.

Best regards,

--
Sorry for possible mistakes in English...
Stéphane

[wlandsman]

To avoid the flood of spam here, I encourage comp.lang.idl-pvwave users to move over to the Google Group idl-pvwave at

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/idl-pvwave

You need to have a Google account, and to press the button asking to join the idl-pvwave group. I hope this does not dissuade too many people on comp.lang.idl-pvwave from moving to idl-pvwave. The owners of the group (currently only me but I hope to add a couple of other people) will be able to see the complete Google email that you are using.


--Wayne Landsman

Post by Patrick Broos
I find that I'm less and less inclined to participate in our useful IDL group because the fraction of spam messages seems to be going up and up. Is there any way to save our group from this scourge?

[superchromix]

Can we simply convert comp.lang.idl-pvwave to a moderated group? Even using Google Groups, the amount of new spam threads each day is making the group unusable. A new group is not a great solution, since we would lose all of the history here.

[Helder]

Post by superchromix
Can we simply convert comp.lang.idl-pvwave to a moderated group? Even using Google Groups, the amount of new spam threads each day is making the group unusable. A new group is not a great solution, since we would lose all of the history here.

Hi,
I agree, but it appears as if "simply convert" does not apply. The "why" is hinted here:
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.idl-pvwave/u1pO0bNQbWQ/G07GoRHKAwAJ

I hope it helps.
H.

[Stefan Ram]

Post by wlandsman
To avoid the flood of spam here, I encourage
comp.lang.idl-pvwave users to move over to the Google Group
idl-pvwave at

When I go to the Google Groups display of a Usenet group,
it is - in fact - full of spam. But in my newsreader,
I do not see any spam (well, very rarely) because my
killfile has deleted the spam. So, I prefer to stay in
the Usenet. Admittedly, I'm not a regular poster on
comp.lang.idl-pvwave, just read this thread by coincidence.